Bloggers get “paid” with comments

by Mathew on May 28, 2008 · View Comments

The debate over fragmentation of blog comments has been around for awhile — I’ve written about it, and so have people like Louis Gray and MG Siegler and others — and I don’t think it’s going away any time soon. Some argue that having comments at places like FriendFeed (or Shyftr, or a number of other sites) isn’t really that big a deal, and that it’s no different than people discussing your blog post via email or some other place that you can’t see it. But Fred Wilson had an interesting take on it in one of his blog posts today, about a blog post by his brother Jackson: he said as far as he’s concerned, bloggers effectively get “paid” by people commenting on their posts:

So here’s the deal. Jackson instigated the conversation with that post. His reward is the comments it generates. That’s how bloggers get paid. And he’s not getting his due on this one.

I think that’s an interesting way of looking at it. Obviously, comments don’t actually pay bloggers for their posts (although the tip-jar model is pretty close). And I’m sure some bloggers would rather get paid with actual money. But I still think Fred is onto something — comments, and other interaction with readers, are one of the ways in which bloggers are rewarded for their effort, along with links from other bloggers, high ranking on sites like Techmeme, etc. It would be nice to think that the sheer joy of crafting an awesome blog post was enough, but some feedback is nice too, even if it’s not completely positive. (Note: For what it’s worth, I agree with Jackson — Mott the Hoople was awesome).

That’s why, like Fred, I am hopeful that comments in all kinds of places can be aggregated in more ways. I’ve got Disqus on my blog (as Fred does) and that helps — and now I have the FriendFeed plugin working as well, so any comments that appear there show up here as well. I don’t mind people commenting somewhere else, but I like the idea that I (or anyone else) can see them all in one place if I want to do that.

Steven Hodson thinks WordPress should buy Disqus, and Broadstuff has some thoughts too about what he calls “dis-aggregating the aggregators.” Allen Stern of Centernetworks has a video response. And Hutch Carpenter of I’m Not Actually a Geek thinks that fragmented conversations can actually be a good thing.

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  • http://www.louisgray.com/live/ Louis Gray

    With time, I believe this topic of “fragmented conversations” will go away. I feel like it's almost everything I've been talking about for two full months. :-)

    I like all these new approaches to gathering and sharing information. I'm already big time on the record in favor of FriendFeed and Shyftr and any other tool that lets you build a community and conversation around content. I was excited to see Paul Buchheit publicly mention he'd reached out to Disqus. That's the first time I'd seen that acknowledged.

    The best thing we can do is continue to participate, and trust the teams working on the innovation. They're all doing a great job and listening. I'm enjoying it. The worst thing we can do is get entrenched and demand that things be a certain way – an inflexible way, and make it so we're not part of the conversation at all.

    Looking forward to much much more.

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work mathewi

    Totally agree, Louis.

  • CyndyA

    Well, sure, Matthew, but you, and Fred, and Louis, all have day jobs that pay the bills. Some of us don't get paid in comments, and chasing the fragmented conversations around gets tiring.

  • http://tvbythenumbers.com Robert Seidman

    Cyndy, if you're paid based on how many people read your posts, I think there's enough data to support all the fragmented conversations do generate more page views than you'd get without them.

    I understand the desire to participate in the conversations, but desire != obligation.

    I'd bet Mike Arrington and Arianna Huffington desire to be a part of any conversations their posts start, but not so much that they'd rather have 10x-100x less traffic so that it was humanly possible!

  • http://www.sheysmith.com/2008/05/29/the-case-for-distributed-conversations/ The Case For Distributed Conversations | introspective snapshots

    [...] the discussion over "fragmented comments" has been revived in posts from Fred Wilson, Matthew Ingram, and Allen Stern.  Allen suggests that when FriendFeeders see the content, they should go back [...]

  • frederic

    I like that point of view. I tend to think of comments and 'likes' on FriendFeed as applause for bloggers.

  • http://www.howardlindzon.com howardlindzon

    the friendfeed plug in is quite interesting. thx matthew.

  • CyndyA

    I'm not current at any gig that pays per page view, but I know many are (the Gawker writers get a base plus pageview bonus, for instance). The idea that FriendFeed is driving all this incredible traffic, however, isn't the case, or at least we haven't experienced it. Svetlana noted it earlier this week; on a FF post with something like 30 likes, only 20 referrals came through from FF. In other words, people are “liking” something in some cases without ever reading the article, which I thought was strange. I understand the logical forking of conversation, so I'd assume that maybe people were saying they liked the conversation, but overall, unless something is seriously mainstream to the point of near universal adoption, I don't think it's ever going to drive the sort of traffic that Google, etc. drive.

  • http://mikeontv.com MikeonTV

    However some of us still comment because of the passion for web 2.0!

  • http://www.technovia.co.uk ianbetteridge

    It's worth remembering that FriendFeed actually fragments comments even within itself. If I reshare a link from someone, that's another comment thread spun out. If I share something that someone else has shared, there's no internal aggregation of comments.

    That's one of the reasons that I suspect FriendFeed is actually weaker in the long term than most people think. Even now, with a relatively small user-base, the number of places to discuss something just on FriendFeed is essentially unmanageable. As it grows, it will be almost impossible to “find where the action is”, so people will just aggregate around things posted by the likes of Scoble – which will turn FriendFeed into yet another platform for domination by the A-list.

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work mathewi

    I have to say that's one of my main peeves with FriendFeed, actually
    – every time someone shares something from Google Reader, or posts it
    to Twitter or shares it in some other way, it becomes a new instance
    of that item and comments aggregate in different places. I wish FF
    could pull those items together.

  • BrianSullivan

    I would like to propose an amendment to “Bloggers get paid in comments”. I would propose “Bloggers get paid in conversation” is a better statement. What is happening is a temporarily it is more difficult to follow the conversation (like before trackbacks and comments system supported blogs).

    I agree with Louis the problem is temporary.

  • http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/05/29/how-do-bloggers-hold-onto-the-value-theyve-created/ How do bloggers hold onto the value they’ve created? ¦ Online Media Cultist

    [...] Ingram, riffing on a Fred Wilson post, talks about the notion of bloggers getting “paid” via comments. In essence, comments are held up as part of the value to a blog/website and to the web publishers [...]

  • http://www.ratdiary.com Sprague D

    I've written about the benefit to bloggers from increased “share of voice” that may make up for the loss of value from from fragmented conversations — but there is still the issue of brands being “subsumed” by other brands…

    http://www.ratdiary.com/2008/05/19/the-brand-ca…

  • http://www.storyofmylife.com/antje antje wilsch

    You and I have been chatting about this a little bit. I still read my paper every single day. I also read the news online (and as the AP becomes more and more filler) I'll find I've already read many of the articles.

    So with one foot in each world (and I prefer Huffington's ménage à trois idea of journalism-blogger-reader better) one of the things I”m finding irks me is that it's nearly impossible to get to an individual AP writer. They bury their contact information. On the flip side, bloggers who never comment on their own posts or post with mostly negative comments (ie only comment on trolls) I also find myself reading less.

    I am tending towards idea that a blog post is the beginning of the discussion / conversation (albeit usually short lived) vs. a newspaper article that I read and am usually finished with by the end (ie I have no expectation of anything further) whereas a blog post is a starting point.

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work mathewi

    I think that's an excellent way of putting it, Antje — so much
    traditional media (including that at my own paper) is seen as an end
    point rather than a starting point. The primary benefit of online
    media of any kind, blogs or whatever, is that it is a beginning of
    something, and that comments and responses and links make up something
    much larger (and hopefully better) than the original thing.

  • http://www.whydoihavetoenterthis.com michael lamb

    Can make the blogger's life tough because there is an expectation of a reply [no reply needed here ;) ]

    Right now I'm involved working with writers on human interest stories, and it's *really* tough to get them to understand that they need to do this – to interact with their users. They just want to publish and be done with it. They truly feel like this is extra “work” they didn't agree to/ sign on for and don't yet get the dynamicsm you mention, how it can grow. They want to leave this to the marketing folks only, but that's not what the users want. It's going to take some work to change this mindset as “news” (in whatever form) often being a beginning rather than an end product.

  • http://reddit.com/user/meepus/ Joe Sherrod

    Bloggers who are against their blog being discussed outside the blog clearly do not want the free advertising. These idiots should read up on grassroots marketing 101.

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work mathewi

    I don't think it's that they're against their blog posts being
    discussed outside their own blog, Joe — I think most of them would
    just like an easier way to find out when that's happening so they can
    take part in the discussion (or at least know about it), which I can
    sympathize with.

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/05/29/do-comments-qualify-as-content/ Do comments qualify as “content”? » mathewingram.com/work |

    [...] they appear on a blog or on FriendFeed. It sort of started with a conversation about the ongoing issue of fragmentation — in which comments appear on blog posts but then also appear at FriendFeed (and in multiple [...]

  • http://bhc3.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/friendfeed-likes-index-case-study-in-value-of-distributed-conversations/ FriendFeed ‘Likes’ Index: Case Study in Value of Distributed Conversations « I’m Not Actually a Geek

    [...] of conversations all over the Web, including on FriendFeed. Mathew Ingram followed up with a concurring blog post. I understand where they’re coming from, but I think they overlook the value of distributed [...]

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/06/25/comments-splinter-again-thanks-to-facebook/ Comments splinter again, thanks to Facebook » mathewingram.com/work |

    [...] on yet another site, increasing the comment-fragmentation problem (which I’ve written about before). Of course, this plays into Facebook’s desire to be a portal, and the need to keep you [...]

  • http://aboutnewmedia.com/metrics/avril-lavigne-breaks-youtube-record About New Media » Blog Archive » Avril Lavigne Breaks YouTube Record

    [...] a disproportionally low level of discussion on the video vs. number of views. Ingram also wrote previously that comments are an important [...]

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/08/15/aol-buys-socialthing-but-why/ AOL buys SocialThing — but why? » mathewingram.com/work |

    [...] people don’t like the fact that FriendFeed pulls comments into its own service (although they can be integrated into blogs, as I have on mine, and comments [...]

  • http://hobbypress.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/exchange-rates-for-blogs/ Exchange rates for Blogs « Hobby Press

    [...] May, Mathew Ingram, Fred Wilson and others said that for non-professional bloggers, comments were how they got paid. [...]

  • http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2008/11/24/does-not-leaving-comments-matter/ Deep Jive Interests » Does Not Leaving Comments Matter?

    [...] launched in part due to Allen Stern’s public bemoaning of a lack of comments thereof, and who is not alone in voicing there support for [...]

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