Blogs and the attribution dilemma

by Mathew on May 12, 2008 · Comments

I wasn’t going to jump into this one, mostly because it seemed kind of “inside baseball” (i.e., not that interesting to lots of people), but as we all know one of the main things the blogosphere likes to do is blog about blogging, so I thought I would take a crack at the Ars Technica brouhaha. Exhibit A is MG Siegler’s post at ParisLemon about what he calls “another classic rip off” by Ars Technica. You can read the post if you need to catch up on the details, but basically MG is saying that the site rewrote his post and never gave him credit for the idea.

This isn’t the first time that Ars has had such allegations leveled at it. As Cynthia Brumfield writes at IPDemocracy, an incident involving a link to one of her posts occurred back in 2006 and has even made it into the Wikipedia entry on Ars. In the comments on her latest post, Ars writer Nate Anderson takes issue with Cynthia’s characterization of events, however, saying it was a mistake that was corrected quickly and that she should have tried to contact someone at Ars before she flamed them in a post. In a response, Cynthia said that she had heard from many others who had had similar experiences.

In the interest of balance, I emailed Ars founder Ken Fisher to ask him for a comment on the allegations, and he said that in the case of IPDemocracy, it was a simple mistake in which “the link got removed accidentally in the editing phase,” that it was fixed as quickly as possible and that there was “no intent to deceive.” As for MG Siegler’s post, he said that Siegler wasn’t the only blog to make the comparison between the iPhone and the game of Risk (this blog also did) and that therefore he didn’t deserve a link. In any case, he said, Ars didn’t see Siegler’s post and wrote its own version at about the same time (the site said it was published later because editors were busy).

I emailed MG Siegler for a comment as well, and he said effectively the same thing as Fisher: that he didn’t link to the other blog with a similar post because he never saw it. However, he maintained that Ars must have seen his post and waited a few days before copying it, and said that the site has done similar things in the past. Since his post was published, he said that he gotten what he called “tons of emails” from other bloggers and writers who felt their work had been copied, and on his blog he said that “A LOT of… well respected and well placed people working in the industry out there have the exact same thoughts.”

This isn’t the first time this sort of thing has come up, obviously. Louis Gray wrote a post about how Mashable was “stealing the B-list buzz” by not providing proper attribution to him (Pete Cashmore and other Mashable writers commented on the post), and later posted a follow-up here. In the past, Mashable put a small “via” link at the bottom of a post, without any other link or attribution (as Adam Ostrow notes in a comment, that policy has changed since Louis’s post). I don’t know what the best approach is, but I know that it’s becoming more of an issue, and it’s something that every blogger should be thinking about when they write. I wrote about this before after Louis posted his thoughts.

As I said in that earlier post, I think the bottom line is that you should link as much as possible — links are the life-blood of the web, and they are how people find new sources of information. In some cases, I will go back and link to other blogs that have written about something I posted on long after I wrote the post. I think that’s part of what blogs (and the media in general) are supposed to be about. It’s more than just Digg submissions and Techmeme headlines.

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  • I think that it's entirely plausible that both Ars and Siegler could of come up with the same idea at the same time. Comparing Apple's strategy to Risk isn't a huge stretch of the imagination and with 1000s of bloggers writing multiple pieces a day, there will occasionally be people writing about the same idea at roughly the same time. See Marcom Gladwell's latest piece in the New Yorker "In the Air" about how dozens of scientific breakthroughs were discovered simultaneously by multiple scientist.
    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/12/0...
  • so it's silly for anyone without hard proof to jump to conclusion that someone else with the same idea MUST of stolen it from you. Two people with similar background, reading the same material, thinking about the same subject, are more likely than not to occasionally have an identical thought.
  • Rich Pearson
    This is spot on, particularly about links being the life-blood of the web. Links count for much more than traffic from click-throughs - they are one of the best indications of page rank and your resulting search engine rank.
  • Even comments are getting harder to attribute properly.

    Here's to hoping DISQUS and other cloud firms are stable and lasting. I just worry (strong word) that over time, all of this meta commentary will shift and the deep link references will have little or no meaning.

    Instead, should an article or post specifically highlight a named source and generalized URI in? Does this pin hopes on identity being so refined that it can discern John Smith from John Smith?

    If now, then being born with the unfortunate name of Robert Scoble might be like going through a Lit program with the name Hunter S. Thompson.

    I am going to stick to comments for a while. :)
  • s/If now/If not/g
  • Tooner
    Siegler is fronting a double-standard. He's holding Ars to a standard he doesn't hold himself, with the lame excuse that Ars just MUST HAVE known what that great MG Siegler wrote. And it's funny Siegler appears to have gotten his inspiration from another blog in the process. Now that readers are calling him out for bitching over nothing. he's turning to convenient anonymous sources who tell him that he is of course right and could never be wrong.
  • Tooner - I have no problem discussing this, but let's not misconstrue things. Does anyone really think I would write that whole post if I had knowingly done the same thing myself? Please.

    The fact of the matter is, as I've repeated, if this were one incident, no biggie, you can chalk it up to a lot of things including coincidence. Two incidents, still perhaps okay in my book. But a history of this behavior and you bet I'm going to call BS on it.

    And yes, I really do hate to be vague on who is emailing me on this, but they asked that I do so. I don't have a history of making up sources, but you're free to not believe me if you'd like. And does it really even matter that it's prominent people seeing the same thing? Perhaps I shouldn't have said that to Mathew, I was just a bit surprised myself by some of the support.

    Regardless of who else it is that is seeing the same thing, big fish or small fish, the fact is that many other people ARE noticing the same thing. There's simply no denying that.
  • who cares
    "But a history of this behavior and you bet I'm going to call BS on it."

    Put up or shut up.

    Be sure to provide specific evidence of plagiarism (or whatever it is that you're bitching about).
  • For what it's worth, I have also started hearing from other people
    about similar occurrences -- and not just one or two mistakes or
    slipups, but a consistent pattern (or what appears to be a pattern) of
    such behaviour. I'd just like to say that if Ars is doing that sort
    of thing deliberately, it's a pretty crappy thing to do -- what does a
    link cost a site like that? Nothing. And yet it can mean so much to
    the site that gets linked.
  • Tim
    The problem is that everyone is referring to vague incidents but no ones showing proof. Here we have exhibit a, parislemon, with the claims & allegations he's made, and exhibit b, a story from two years ago supposedly involving a mistake that was corrected.

    Im fine with people wanting to remain anonymous, but it would be nice to know that someone (Matthew?) has checked into things. I say Matthew because you aren't directly involved not because you want to get into all this. It would be good to know that there was consistent evidence--not just some allegations.

    I went to ars technica and looked at the stories going back a few weeks. I see a number of links to various sources (not just circular links).

    Instead of calling this a vast conspiracy against ars or a concerted attempt by ars to steal content, isn't it possible that ars simply isn't reading your work? until today i had no idea who parislemon was (sorry).
  • That's a fair point, Tim. I have asked several people for specifics
    so that I could check them, but for a variety of reasons I guess they
    don't want to go public with their criticisms -- perhaps in part
    because it is difficult to pin down when it's a mistake, when it's
    just not knowing another source was out there, and when it's
    deliberate.
  • Thank you Mathew. I tried to put that across in my reply to you, but I know I was long winded and vague at times :) But yes, I think you'll find many sources to back up the claims in some of the circles you and I both frequent on the Internet - and even more outside those circles.

    When so many people are saying it, it must be a conspiracy in my mind right?
  • I think you're spot on Mathew, and tbh, I've always thought you set the right high standard here. A link costs nothing, and if you look at blog stats as often as I do, a very small percentage click through anyway, so it's like you're sending thousands of people away!
  • Thanks, Steve. I appreciate that.
  • Hey Mathew - We no longer use "via" links at Mashable. If we aren't the source, we always refer to it in the body of the article, i.e. "According to Mathew Ingram ..."
  • Thanks, Adam -- I remember some discussion about Mashable changing its
    policies around the time Louis wrote his post, but I never heard what
    those changes entailed. Thanks for letting me know -- I'll change the
    post.
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