Will the real Dave Winer please stand up?

by Mathew on October 4, 2007 · Comments

So Dave Winer thinks Techmeme has become a “cesspool,” as he puts it. Why? He says it’s because of the Techmeme leaderboard, and how it’s encouraging people to say all kinds of things in an attempt to game the system. But I think Dave is just pissed that a certain person he doesn’t name — but whose name rhymes with Mason Balacanis — was topping the site for much of the day.

Dave can’t even bring himself to mention J-Dawg’s name, calling him an “idiot who says idiotic things to get attention,” a reference that I assume goes back to Dave’s little contretemps with JC at a conference awhile back. The ironic thing is that by doing that, Dave himself engaged in exactly the same thing he claims to abhor — and got some nice Techmeme juice out of it to boot.

Update:

Mike says that Dave is using tinyURL in his post when he links to Jason, to prevent JC from getting any link juice. I guess that’s pettiness 2.0 (In a comment below, Dave denies that this was his intention). And Scott Karp has some tips for Gabe on how to prevent people from “gaming” Techmeme to rise up the leaderboard. But Scott, that would ruin all our fun :-)

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  • I agree Mathew. I read the post and just can't help tasting sour grapes.
  • Actually I used the tinyurls in a vain effort to not be linked into the chorus under the Official Definition of Web 3.0 piece. Contrary to what Mike says, I would have been happy if my piece hadn't been picked up on TechMeme at all, but in the end I'm happy to get the flow and the attention. I think the points I make need to be considered. I certainly have heard from a lot of people who support my point. How disappointing to see that Mike wants it censored, as if TM were Gabe's personal blog, and as if the top spot were his exclusive territory. Talk about throwing your weight around! And I've been waiting for a chance to say: With friends like this... Heh.

    Also consider that Calacanis's post may have been a dig at the Web 2.0 Summit, which is coming up the week after next. Jason and Mike both compete with it (they're having product showcases at Web 2.0 this year), so it's kind of tacky for them to be taking such cheap shots at a competitor. I don't know -- could just be me. And it may be that his piece was what it seemed to be -- another cheezy attempt to get people talking about his company.
  • This is all so ridiculous, I can't believe any of you spend time on it.
  • I don't know...I find it all so very interesting.

    Yes, there are ways of "gaming" Techmeme--as there are ways of "gaming" pretty much everything (and, apparently, of denying folks "link juice".) Do you recall, M., when a whole bunch of people got *very* upset at the 2000 Bloggers meme, saying it was "gaming" Technorati and "inflating" everyone's linkage? Yet there are tons of splogs created daily that add to the link counts of high-traffic blogs (yes, I've checked this out.)

    Even Digg gets "gamed" by folks from various places that "digg" their own stuff. repeatedly.

    We probably should look at the Leaderboard as *just* a barometer of a *particular* communiy (and not the entire blogosphere) at a particular point in time. Case in point: The Feedster 500.
  • Mathew
    Dave, I think your points might be more likely to be taken seriously if you didn't call Jason an "idiot who says idiotic things just to get attention." Just a hunch. But I will take your word on the tinyURL thing.

    And Tish, I think you are right -- anything that involves human beings can be "gamed" in some way.
  • By who?
  • The leaderboard is only moderately interesting, gamed or not. What makes it there is so pasteurized and homogenized that it's just a double check that the real blogs you read might have missed something urgent, or at least interesting.

    What I want to access is all the stuff just off the edge of the leaderboard. It's in the dark, so it can't be gamed. Yet.

    More on my blog:

    http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/the-...
  • This is so bloody petty and embarrassing to even watch. Techmeme was a crap in the first place. Now, it's like taking crap, gold plating it, and calling it genius.

    How much do you think it would cost us all if we all chipped in and paid these people to go away?
  • I'll take reasons why I don't read TechMeme as often as my RSS feeds for $10.
  • great mind
  • (to be fair to techmeme, a large percentage of the blogs I subscribe to are the "edge" cases I discovered through TechMeme)
  • I like Techmeme. I don't think it's the only place people are manipulating traffic. There are all kinds of tactics. Other online media is more than likely also guilty.

    I think this is going to become more transparent in the future. A recent report said advertisers are reluctant to spend money online because of the lack of metrics. If it holds true, metrics will probably quickly improve and narrow the gap where you can finesse page views, visitors, etc.
  • These spats between tech "heavyweights" are pretty embarrassing sometimes. Dave, grow up and stop crying (in public) about how mean and yucky Calcanis is. If you've got issues with him, send him an email or something. (Or would you lose out on traffic if you did it that way?)

    It's just pathetic the way you lot do this stuff in public.

    (No offence, btw. Most of the stuff you write is top-notch.)
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