Andrew Keen Q & A: still hates the Internet

by Mathew on June 7, 2007 · Comments

As I wrote in an earlier blog post about Andrew Keen — author of Cult of the Amateur: How Today’s Internet Is Killing Our Culture — we had a Q & A with the notorious Web 2.0 skeptic at globeandmail.com today, but despite my best efforts we didn’t get nearly as much back-and-forth as I was hoping. The full version is here (and, as is often the case, there’s some good responses in the comments) and James Robertson has some thoughts on the Q & A here.

Rachel Sklar, the lovely and talented Huffington Post blogger (and a star panelist at mesh) asked Keen:

“Who gets to be the arbiter of what is Good For Culture and what is Bad For Culture – some snobby on-high culture dude logrolling his buddy’s crappy book of “art” photos or the public, who votes with their eyeballs and their mouse clicks and their time?”

To which Keen responded:

here has always and will always be an arbiter of taste. Web 2.0’s idealists suggest otherwise — but behind their “democracy” is either an algorithm (easily gamed) or a new elite of generally anonymous tastemakers who are shaping wisdom of the crowd sites like reddit and digg. I like professional arbiters — reviewers, editors, agents, talent scouts.”

And I think Eric Berlin of Online Media Cultist and Blogcritics.org made a good point when he said:

“You’ve described “The Cult of the Amateur” as “not designed to be particularly fair or balanced.” What standard would you hold to the blogs that exist in your “digital forest of mediocrity”?

Is it possible in your view that some small percentage of the many millions of blogs add to the overall culture by some broad definition?”

To which Keen responded:

“Good question. I think that the percentage of good blogs is lower because the system has no filters. At least mainstream media has professional filters which, if not ideal, certainly gets rid of some of the dross and finds some jewels.

Professional filters don’t always work and tend toward somewhat conservative, populist and predictable taste. But I prefer to have my culture served up to me by professional tastemakers than an algorithm or by anonymous people on the Internet acting in the name of the virtuous crowd.”

In the end, that is the question — would you rather restrict yourself to the populist and predictable that gets served up by professional tastemakers, or do you enjoy a little more variety and spice, and are prepared to wade through a little dross to get to it? We have Keen’s answer.

And just between you and me, I have a feeling Mr. Keen is probably a lot less bombastic in his views than he makes out — extreme opinion gets lots of attention, as all good Internet trolls know. Kevin Marks puts Keen firmly in that camp, and so does Doc Searls.

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  • Mathew
    Well said, Leigh -- thanks for that. I couldn't have put it better myself.
  • Check this out from Bakardo's post

    http://bokardo.com/archives/its-just-people-tal...

    a Douglas Adams (of Hitchhikers Guide fame) quote:

    “Because the Internet is so new we still don’t really understand what it is. We mistake it for a type of publishing or broadcasting, because that’s what we’re used to. So people complain that there’s a lot of rubbish online, or that it’s dominated by Americans, or that you can’t necessarily trust what you read on the web. Imagine trying to apply any of those criticisms to what you hear on the telephone. Of course you can’t ‘trust’ what people tell you on the web anymore than you can ‘trust’ what people tell you on megaphones, postcards or in restaurants. Working out the social politics of who you can trust and why is, quite literally, what a very large part of our brain has evolved to do. For some batty reason we turn off this natural scepticism when we see things in any medium which require a lot of work or resources to work in, or in which we can’t easily answer back – like newspapers, television or granite. Hence ‘carved in stone.’ What should concern us is not that we can’t take what we read on the internet on trust – of course you can’t, it’s just people talking – but that we ever got into the dangerous habit of believing what we read in the newspapers or saw on the TV – a mistake that no one who has met an actual journalist would ever make. One of the most important things you learn from the internet is that there is no ‘them’ out there. It’s just an awful lot of ‘us’.”
  • Mat
    being = beyond
  • Mat
    But in such a world, how are the professionals supported? How are they given the resources they need to do their job, to improve, and to live?

    From a purely financial point of view, I really don't think Adwords is a viable model, but I'm talking being stricly dollars and sense. What about the infrastructure (human, technological, and other) that large media companies can provide to support the professional journalist and help him/her thrive? Wither the media organization, and you lose more than just a handful of pros - you lose the very machines that have learned what quality means (or so I think they've learned from what I see of your employer Mathew)
  • Mathew
    Seth, your comment was unfortunately pretty typical -- straw men everywhere, it seems.

    And Mat, I am a big fan of high-quality writing and high-quality thought -- but I'm at least willing to admit that it can be found in other places than just newspapers and magazines.

    And unlike Andrew, I don't see it as being a binary question -- either we have trained journalists or a sea of hobbyist bloggers. I think one can complement the other.
  • Mat
    I don't know. I'm as big a fan of the freedoms the 'Net provides as the next guy, and generally a champion of all web things social, but I think some of the warnings Andrew raises are worth thinking about rather than dismissing out of hand.

    As a professional journalist, Mathew, I'd like to know what you think about a future society void of professional journalists? Surely, there is a notable distinction between _trained_ writers and _hobyist_ bloggers? Seperating this wheat from the chaff is exactly what we're talking about here. Traditional newspapers give me an easy way to do that. Technorati does not; their metrics are worthless for determining quality, since the irreducible unit of their algorithms is the hyperlink, a meaningless measure even when (or maybe especially when) taken in aggregate.

    I've been thinking about this a lot for some months, as I've long considered making a career or writing and/or journalism but have little faith in the professional's ability to make a living in this regard. The signal to noise ratio is just so low, and I don't see it improving.

    Perhaps you have some thoughts that might make me reconsider my somewhat-sypathetic view of Andrew's thesis?
  • Bah, humbug.

    This is like some sort of epic battle of strawmen.

    I'd actually give Keen the edge here, but he's too interested in being "controversial". Here's the real answers:

    1) "Who gets to be the arbiter ..."

    Look, if you think there's NO DIFFERENCE between "quality" and "popular" - that BY DEFINITION, "best" == "most appealing" - then there's nothing to say. If you don't, well, you've answered your own question in a way.

    2) "do you enjoy a little more variety ..."
    Strawman. The question is "Do you want the gatekeepers to be professional culturalists or professional demagogues? Because there *will* be a small set of gatekeepers, and it's just a matter of which ones.

    Oh, why bother :-(.
  • My flame definitely burns bright when it comes to this topic!

    Mathew - thanks so much for including my questions. My immediate thought while reading Keen's response was "old thinking." It's fine if you desire filters.

    I love HBO for instance because they produce high quality programs (is it Sunday and time for Sopranos yet?), but I'm not opposed to watching videos on youtube. I read ABC's The Note every morning, but I'm not opposed to taking in viewpoints from a wide variety of bloggers and journalists across the web.

    The great thing about the web and blogosphere is that I get to decide, I set the filters.
  • Mathew
    I know you're right, Kent -- sometimes I just can't help myself. It's like a moth to the flame :-)
  • I am as guilty of this as anyone, but why are we talking about this guy? He should be ignored like the other trolls we pass on the way to and fro.
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