Sanger sticks a fork in Wikipedia

by Mathew on September 17, 2006 · View Comments

Getting too deeply into the personalities behind the formation of Wikipedia.org is not wise — much like delving into the history behind the development of RSS or podcasting (see Wikipedia entries on either for more detail, and if you’re a real glutton for punishment try reading the changelogs) — but suffice it to say that Larry Sanger played a key role in the development of the “open source” encyclopedia, along with the much more famous Jimmy Wales.

In any case, Mr. Sanger announced recently that he has decided to create his own version of Wikipedia, which he calls Citizendium. In open-source software terms, this is known as a “fork,” which is what happens when one group working on a project decides they can’t work with another group. According to Mr. Sanger, the Citizendium will begin with the complete text of what is already in Wikipedia, and then build on it.

The explicit use of experts as “editors” (non-experts are to be known as “authors”) is one of the key differences between Citizendium and Wikipedia, although how someone qualifies as an expert is not clear (that’s a problem with Jason’s idea too). Is a degree in that subject enough, or does it have to be a certain type of degree from a certain calibre of institution? Another key difference is that Citizendium will require the use of real names and email addresses, and there will be enforcers known as “constables” who can remove articles or suspend accounts.

Is any of this going to work, and if so will it make what results better or more reliable than Wikipedia? That remains to be seen. While Mr. Sanger’s proposal sounds interesting, I wonder when I read sentences like this one: “In time, an effective and fair “legal” system will be established.” How would the United States would have turned out if the Constitution had contained nothing but that single sentence under the discussion of the new republic’s legal system? Marshall Kirkpatrick has a fairly skeptical take on the new venture at TechCrunch.

I have to say I’m a little surprised that Nick “Wikipedia is dead” Carr hasn’t devoted more space to this new development. While he has posted about it, there is remarkably little about how this proves Wikipedia is flawed or that the entire community-driven knowledge model is a load of bollocks etc., etc. There’s some discussion at Slashdot (with Sanger taking part) and Nick has helpfully linked to the original email thread in which Sanger proposed turning what was then called Nupedia into a wiki back in 2001.

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  • http://tech.memeorandum.com Techmeme

    Mathew Ingram / mathewingram.com/work: Sanger sticks a fork in Wikipedia

  • http://evans.blogware.com mark evans

    you figure nick carr would have just used sanger’s new venture to hack away at wikipedia! maybe he’s got a new hobby-horse?!

  • Mathew Ingram

    Maybe he’s not feeling well :-)

  • http://www.robhyndman.com/2006/09/17/there-is-no-fork/ robhyndman.com » Blog Archive » There is no Fork

    [...] Mathew cautions against getting too far into the personalities behind the scene, and from what I’ve read that’s good advice. But it seems just quite unfortunate that the communities behind these alternative approaches can’t combine their energies. Related Posts [...]

  • http://blogcritics.org Eric Berlin

    There seems to be a movement to take community-based platforms and try to slap some element of “expertise” (which some might deem as control) upon them.

    Take digg and netscape — it’s the same thing, isn’t? Calacanis took the digg model and is attempting to use editorial “anchors” to provide some level of editorial control over a social media/news experience.

    I find this to be one of the most interesting developments in online media right about now — great post, Mathew.

  • Mathew Ingram

    Thanks, Eric. I think it’s something we’re going to see more and more of as social media becomes more commonplace. Some will worry about the rabble taking over and ruining everything, and others will worry about editors and other gatekeepers exerting too much control.

  • http://tailrank.com/posts/562949953969032/Sanger_forks_Wikipedia Tailrank – Sanger forks Wikipedia

    [...] Sanger forks Wikipedia roughtype.com Found 5 hours ago The man who invented Wikipedia now wants to bury it. Larry Sanger, the controversial online encyclopedia’s cofounder and leading apostate, announced yesterday, at a conference in Berlin, that he is spearheading the launch of a competitor to Wikipedia called The Citizendium. … Tagged: Morning Reading: 9/17/06 newsome.org Found 4 hours ago Back in Bubble 1.0, there were a lot of hugely popular message boards (the Bubble 1.0 version of interactive blogs, etc.). There were hugely popular boards on investing, politics, sports, etc. For a while, we thought the sky was the limit. … Permalink Sanger sticks a fork in Wikipedia mathewingram.com Found 5 hours ago Getting too deeply into the personalities behind the formation of Wikipedia.org is not wise — much like delving into the history behind the development of RSS or podcasting (see Wikipedia entries on either for more detail, and if you’re a real glutton for punishment try reading the changelogs) — but suffice it to say that Larry Sanger played a key role in the development of the “open source” encyclopedia, along with the much more famous Jimmy Wales. … Permalink The Citizendium i-together.net Found 5 hours ago [via Nick Carr ] Permalink Wikipedia Quality Sucks podtech.wordpress.com Found 47 minutes ago Wikipedia quality sucks with the anonoymous postings and the results suffers as a consequence. Nick Rough Type chimes in. I don’t agree with “Forking” but maybe this will put the pressure on the quality of wikipedia. … Permalink Sanger to Fork Wikipedia into Citizendium michaelzimmer.org Found 5 hours ago Larry Sanger , first editor-in-chief of Wikipedia , announced yesterday his plans to fork the project into a competitor to Wikipedia called The Citizendium . Sanger describes it as “an experimental new wiki project that combines public participation with gentle expert guidance. … Permalink Sanger is to Wales as jdamer.com Found 4 hours ago My two cents on Wikipeda co-founder (and my former ethics professor) Larry Sanger getting back in to the web : 1. It reminds me a lot of Netscape – some backwards thinking in what should be a freely controlled space. … Permalink Enterprise Web 2.0 enterpriseweb2.com Found 21 days ago London Bus Ads Change as Locations Do Permalink [...]

  • http://blogcritics.org Eric Berlin

    Yes, exactly right Mathew, and the winning models will be those that balance those two sides while pleasing and serving an audience best. It’s really fascinating to think about how young social networks and social news and other kinds of social media sites really are. It’s fun to think about who will emerge as the diggs and myspaces and wikipedias of two years from now.

  • http://www.textop.org/wiki/index.php?title=Citizendium_press Citizendium press – Textop Wiki

    [...] Nick Carr: http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2006/09/sanger_forks_wi.php Techcrunch (with my replies): http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/09/17/citizendiuma-more-civilized-wikipedia/ Crunchnotes: http://www.crunchnotes.com/?p=279 SmartMobs: http://www.smartmobs.com/archive/2006/09/16/citizendium.html Deep jive interests: http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2006/09/17/citizendium-an-evolution-in-social-networking/ Very interesting discussion this: “Citizendium may be one of a few markers that reveal the evolution of user-driven content.” ZDNet blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/micro-markets/?p=449 Mathew Ingram: http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2006/09/17/sanger-sticks-a-fork-in-wikipedia/ Open…: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2006/09/forking-wikipedia.html Open Access News: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/fosblog.html This is a stitch by the way (from deepjiveinterests.com): Retrieved from “http://www.textop.org/wiki/index.php?title=Citizendium_press” [...]

  • http://starkedsf.com/archives/talk-of-the-town-monday-september-18/ Starked SF, Unforgiving News from the Bay » Blog Archive » Talk of the Town: Monday, September 18

    [...] Ingram watches Sanger spank Wikipedia. View from Calacanis. [...]

  • http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/09/17/citizendiuma-more-civilized-wikipedia Techcrunch » Blog Archive » Citizendium: a more civilized Wikipedia?

    [...] Sanger sticks a fork in Wikipedia » Mathew Ingram: mathewingram.com/work [...]

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