The RSS soap opera (updated)

by Mathew on February 22, 2006 · View Comments

Dave just can’t let it go. The RSS thing, I mean. He started with a thinly-veiled attack on the RSS Advisory Board a few days ago, which he managed to rope John Palfrey and Harvard’s Berkman Center into as well (are they regretting ever getting involved? I would have to think they are, unless they are closet masochists). And now he is firing broadsides in typical Winer-esque fashion both on his blog and on the Yahoo Group dedicated to the RSS effort (or perhaps “sideshow” might be a better term).

Here’s a typical example of how Dave likes to deal with things. He often talks about how the RSS process should be open, and how ideas from the advisory board have to compete for acceptance, that they are “not mandates.” But then he writes things like this:

“I am banging the gavel and ending this experiment of Rogers’s [Roger Cadenhead, head of the advisory board]. Tomorrow I will talk individualy with all the corporate members of the “board” and ask them to resign.”

But even this isn’t enough for Dave, who likes to talk about how RSS has been given to the people through Harvard and the Creative Commons process, but still guards the spec as though he were a mother bear and it was his cub. Here’s how he continues his ultimatum:

“If anyone else decides to join up with [Rogers] on the terms of the old “advisory board” I will talk with each of them individually, until they see that it serves no purpose. This process will go on until Rogers gets the idea that it isn’t go to work. I may at some time send him a bill for all of my time that he is wasting.”

The sad thing is that Dave’s efforts will probably do a fair amount of damage to the advisory board, and his talking to various corporate backers of the idea might just sabotage a lot of what the group is attempting to do – which, let’s remember, is to improve the spec. Dave would rather have it frozen in amber for eternity, which is why Atom was developed – as a way of routing around Dave (as James Robertson puts it, the reason why Atom exists is demonstrated “every single time Dave speaks on the subject”).

And whenever supporters like Paul Montgomery of Tinfinger come out in support of Dave, they wind up having to twist themselves into rhetorical pretzels. Tim, for example, thinks the fact that RSS is broken and generally sucks is actually a positive thing. How did things get to this point?

Update:

I can’t resist. Another exhibit in the ongoing Dave Winer-versus-everyone-else story: Dave posted something today (Feb. 23) that is like an exercise in split personalities. He starts off very reasonably, telling Rogers Cadenhead to “be a sport and listen a little, give a little. You can make a contribution without being Lord Master God of RSS.” Then he tells Rogers that the “compromise” he suggests is for Rogers and the rest of the RSS Advisory Board to change their name and their mandate completely – to what Dave wants it to be, of course. Then he says

“I’m not going to argue with you about whether or not you’re in conflict, since I’m the author of the roadmap, I reserve that judgement for myself. Someone has to have the last word, and when it comes to the RSS 2.0 roadmap, that’s me, not you.” He also warns Rogers that “you can’t just blow by me in RSS, and ignore what I say, that just isn’t going to work.”

Priceless. If you want more on the saga, Shelley over at Burningbird has plenty.

Update 2:

Dave Sifry of Technorati.com has resigned from the RSS board today (Feb. 24) at the request of Dave Winer.

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  • http://www.newsome.org Newsome.Org

    But the soft words That are spoke so gently, yeah It makes it easier, easier to bear… -Otis Redding I’ve been mildly following the great RSS debate, mostly viaMathew Ingram’s posts. It seems Dave Winer and some other people involved in the development of RSS are fighting. I can’t tell whose right, but it makes for some interesting reading. I actually emailed Dave and asked for permission to email him a few short

  • http://tinfinger.blogspot.com Paul Montgomery

    Tim, for example,

    Who is this Tim of which you speak? The name’s Paul, or m0nty.

  • Mathew

    Ah, you must have seen the beta version of my post :-) Already changed.

    Not sure where the Tim came from exactly. The “tin” in Tinfinger, perhaps? The mighty magician Tim from Monty Python? Hard to say. Anyway, apologies.

    Mathew

  • Anonymous

    It’s a bummer because it’s such a betrayal of Rogers Cadenhead, who has been incredibly loyal to Dave. I don’t want to talk too highly of Rogers, who is a sycophant, but instead to say that I can’t believe Dave would have so little sense of reciprocity.

  • http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20060222/2978/ Make You Go Hmm: » Days of RSS Lives

    [...] Now back to Winer’s sour grapes. Mathew Ingram does a good job of laying down the background for where the RSS soap opera begins to unfold, quoting some choice Winer comments which suggest he is less than happy with the direction of this group. Ingram writes: The sad thing is that Dave’s efforts will probably do a fair amount of damage to the advisory board, and his talking to various corporate backers of the idea might just sabotage a lot of what the group is attempting to do – which, let’s remember, is to improve the spec. Dave would rather have it frozen in amber for eternity, which is why Atom was developed – as a way of routing around Dave (as James Robertson puts it, the reason why Atom exists is demonstrated “every single time Dave speaks on the subjectâ€?). [...]

  • http://sethf.com/ Seth Finkelstein

    About: (are they regretting ever getting involved)

    I hardly speak for them, but I suspect it’s considered just the price of doing business – $100 MILLION OF VC BUSINESS!

    http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/000873.html

  • http://seanzmart.wordpress.com/2006/02/24/technology-overshadowed-by-personalities/ Enter the Sphere » Technology overshadowed by personalities

    [...] This is an amusing bit of writing at BurningBird. Based on this mess my conclusion is that Atom will win over time, BUT it looks like Microsoft has rescued RSS, at least for the next few years and that’s too bad. More on the “soap operaâ€? with some telling quotes from Dave Winer: BTW, some people were avoiding him at the Mashup Camp conference this week. I don’t know the man but it appears that he is loosing some stature over this debate. Maybe he should enter a RSS 12 Step program and get on with some new projects. Back to the technology.  All we really want is some clarity on the existing RSS spec so we can get on with our business. There are unanswered questions:  Are multiple enclosures allowed in a single item?  Is description the only RSS element that can carry HTML?  Are relative URLs allowed? If these guys can not perform this fundamental function then Atom should win.Accept my apology if this is too much “insideâ€? stuff. Dismiss it if you wish.  [...]

  • http://www.thosebastards.com King Bastard

    Typical Dave Winer stuff. Why do people keep listening to this guy when he just shits on everyone?

    KB

    The Dave Winer “Bastard of the Blogs” card: http://www.thosebastards.com/archives/2084/

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2006/05/03/rogers-cadenhead-cuts-a-deal-with-dave/ Rogers Cadenhead cuts a deal with Dave » mathewingram.com/work

    [...] I wasn’t going to write anything about the latest development in the Dave Winer and Rogers Cadenhead saga, because I’ve probably wasted enough electrons already on that topic a few times in the past, but I couldn’t resist after reading a post Rogers did on the legal settlement that he and Dave managed to hash out after Dave sued him. [...]

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